TRANSCRIPT
Balance of Power (BLOOM)
JOE MATHIEU: As we turn now to get the view from the administration, joined here in studio by Peter Navarro, White House Senior Counselor for Trade and Manufacturing. Mr. Navarro, welcome back. I was going to ask you first about tariffs, but because Ty Cobb—by the way, there’s nothing awkward about having Peter over at the house when Ty Cobb is on the phone—he was talking about…
SENIOR COUNSELOR PETER NAVARRO: It was a great time. I’m glad to say, I’m glad you heard everything you said. I got to congratulate Kelsey on her—
MATHIEU: Kailey.
NAVARRO: Kailey. On her beautiful boy.
MATHIEU: Well, thank you very much. I’ll let her know. Beautiful boy.
NAVARRO: Andrew Price. If she had twins, the joke was what she would’ve named the other one—Earnings or Volume.
MATHIEU: I’ll have to ask her that.
NAVARRO: She should be sitting in the chair with us soon.
MATHIEU: Well, I hope that’s true. We’ll see Kailey Leinz in a couple of weeks. With regard to Lisa Cook—
NAVARRO: Okay, let’s talk about this.
MATHIEU: Why not wait to find out if she’s going to be charged?
NAVARRO: What a hateful anti-Trump guy. I mean, start with Bolton. I mean Bolton—what Ty Cobb could have pointed out was Judge Royce Lamberth—
MATHIEU: I saw your op-ed this week in The Hill.
NAVARRO: —ruled that John Bolton likely jeopardized national security, gambled with national security, and the Trump administration would’ve likely prevailed on the merits of the case if it had gone forward and Trump had been reelected. Now what that would’ve meant: likely jail time for John Bolton. So don’t tell me, Ty Cobb, that we’re going after John Bolton.
See, that guy took, by his own admission, copious notes in places like the Situation Room and places where national intelligence secrets were being done. And then he cashed in on that with his memoirs, and he’s just been out of control ever since. He’s a threat to national security. The guy should be investigated. If they find he’s got what we think he might have, that guy should go to a federal prison.
MATHIEU: Why not the same approach to Lisa Cook? Why not wait to find the results of the investigation?
NAVARRO: Let’s talk Lisa Cook. So here’s the thing. This is a very interesting case. The way the statute reads is that the president unequivocally has authority to fire for cause. In this case, the cause would be malfeasance.
So what do we know here? What we know here appears to be a slam dunk, damning case. What do we got? I couldn’t believe this when I saw this—two mortgages—
MATHIEU: Two mortgage applications, yeah.
NAVARRO: In two weeks, where she put on both claimed to be full-time residence. She both claimed they were her permanent residence. The way the rules are, you gotta occupy within 60 days and stay there for at least a year. I mean, by the math of it, you can’t do that in two houses, okay? So on the face of it, that’s malfeasance.
Now, the statute doesn’t say the malfeasance has to happen while you are in office in the Fed—it just says malfeasance. Now look at the history. I mean, we’ve had—I can go 20 names of people who left administrations because of allegations like this under a scandal.
MATHIEU: The appearance or impression of impropriety. In this case though, because people are already asking you about politicizing the Fed—why not embrace due process?
NAVARRO: This is due process. The president has the power to do exactly what he’s doing: fire her for cause—in this case, malfeasance.
Now for those—look, Nixon resigned without a trial. We had the whole Contra thing. Those people were gone without a trial.
MATHIEU: She said she’s suing you soon.
NAVARRO: The one that’s most relevant here is the independent agency guys who were fired by Biden. One of my good friends, Mark Calabria, was at an agency and he got fired—and the court said Biden had every right to do it.
MATHIEU: Have you imagined a world in which she gets the injunction and she stays in that job while this criminal investigation is underway and Donald Trump is sitting in the White House Truthing at her every day? How ugly could this get?
NAVARRO: Well, look, when she got appointed, Joe, back when I was outside and Biden appointed her, I said flat out it was a terrible hire. It was a DEI hire. She’s not qualified.
But you look at the arc of what she has done as Fed governor—she was one of Jay Powell’s votes to keep rates artificially low as the inflation crisis began because of Biden’s overspending. She fed into the “inflation is transitory” narrative, which was pure partisanship. And she was the one who helped light the inflationary spiral that we’ve been fighting with ever since.
And then Trump gets in there—what does she do? She flips. And it’s like partisan again. It’s like she won’t lower rates. She’s a partisan animal who weaponized the Federal Reserve. This is not about Fed independence.
I mean, think about it, Joe—two mortgages in two weeks, claiming falsely. Now here’s the thing—this is personal to me.
MATHIEU: Well, I understand. Using language like “animals” is a little tough though, Peter.
NAVARRO: I went to prison. I went to prison, Joe, for defending the Constitution. And when I was in there—which is why this is relevant—is there were at least two guys I knew in there who were in there for a long time for similar charges.
And not only—you don’t only go to prison. You get your assets seized. There’s forfeiture, and generally there’s a restitution that has to be paid. So this is not, folks, this is not a slap on the wrist. This is not a little thing. People are in prison.
What does it say about the world if she tries to hide behind the fact that she hasn’t had a trial yet, when in fact the facts are the facts and it doesn’t require a trial?
MATHIEU: I read your view on that. I don’t think you want—I don’t think you want to call Lisa Cook an animal. You didn’t mean that.
NAVARRO: A what?
MATHIEU: An animal.
NAVARRO: I didn’t say that—yeah, I didn’t mean to say that.
MATHIEU: I think you said “partisan animal.”
NAVARRO: Oh—a partisan animal. Okay.
MATHIEU: That we understand what you—
NAVARRO: I understand. I apologize.
MATHIEU: Okay, fine. I just want to give you—I don’t want you to leave without—
NAVARRO: A partisan—I mean, look. Look, it’s just a figurative term.
MATHIEU: Should we investigate everyone who disagrees with Donald Trump?
NAVARRO: Of course not. But that’s not what this is about.
MATHIEU: This is about the mortgage applications?
NAVARRO: With Bolton, not what that’s about. Bolton walked out of the White House in a huff, and the only thing he shares with Ty Cobb—proves my thing: never trust a guy with a handlebar mustache. Both of them have that.
He walks out with a stack of copious notes, screwing both the president, everybody he works with, and he goes—and what it looks like to Judge Royce Lamberth—don’t ask me—it looks like he relied on information that should otherwise have not seen the light of day under four possible different statutes. And if he did that, as Royce Lamberth said, you know—
MATHIEU: I’ve never talked to you for this long without bringing up tariffs.
NAVARRO: Yeah.
MATHIEU: We’ve got India today.
NAVARRO: Let’s do India.
MATHIEU: 50%. Are we actually in talks with India right now? Is there a potential for a deal to change that number?
NAVARRO: Look, it is real easy. India can get 25% off tomorrow if it stops buying Russian oil and helping to feed the war machines.
MATHIEU: Are they not sending that signal?
NAVARRO: They’re not. And look—here’s the thing I’m puzzled, okay? Because Modi’s a great leader. These people are—this is a mature democracy with intelligent people running it. And they look us bald-faced in the eye on the tariff part and say, “We don’t have the highest tariffs in the world,” when in fact they do. There’s no dispute about that if you look at the numbers.
And then they say, “Oh, we’re not going to stop buying Russian oil.” Now what does that mean? I mean, we’ve talked about this, but it’s worth talking to your viewers again.
When India buys Russian oil at a discount, and then Indian refiners in partnership in India with Russian refiners make that and sell it at a premium to the rest of the world—Russia uses the money it gets to fund its war machine, kill more Ukrainians.
And then the next thing that happens, of course, is Ukraine comes to the U.S. and Europe and says, “Give us some more money.” So everybody in America loses because of what India’s doing. The consumers and businesses and everything lose, and workers lose because India’s high tariffs cost us jobs and factories and income and higher wages—and then the taxpayers lose because we gotta fund Modi’s war.
Okay? The road to peace runs, at least partly, right through New Delhi.
MATHIEU: You mean Putin’s war?
NAVARRO: I mean Modi’s war. Let me ask you this—because the road to peace runs in part through New Delhi. I mean, that’s a lot of money.
MATHIEU: It’s a lot of money. But there are some who say that we’re losing leverage with China by eliminating the next biggest economic alternative. What do you tell them? Why are they wrong?
NAVARRO: I’m so tired of these national—why are national security strategists being too cute by half? The reality is: you gotta stop India and China from buying Russian oil. You do that—tomorrow the war’s over, okay?
The war’s over. If everybody, including Europe—this is like Europe’s still buying Russian oil, which is crazy—if people just stop buying Russian oil, then it’s only a matter of time before Putin doesn’t have the money to fund that war.
So Modi’s a big part of it. It’s a million and a half barrels of oil a day—that buys a lot of drones and bombs to kill Ukrainians cheap.
So what’s troubling to me, Joe, is that the Indians are so arrogant about this. They say, “Oh, we don’t have higher tariffs. Oh, it’s our sovereignty. We can buy oil from anyone we want.”
India, you’re the biggest democracy in the world. Act like one. Side with the democracies. You’re getting in bed with the authoritarians. China—you’ve been at quiet war with them for decades. They invaded Aksai Chin and all your territory. These are not your friends, folks. Okay? And the Russians—I mean, come on.
MATHIEU: With a direct appeal for the listeners and viewers here—Peter Navarro, it’s great to have you back. Good to see you as always, White House Senior Counselor for Trade and Manufacturing. Thank you for the insights.
